Introducing Career Stories
Hello, and welcome to Career Stories, the podcast that shares other people's career stories to help you with yours. And welcome to Career Stories, the podcast that shares other people's career stories to help you with yours. I'm Luella Forbes. And I'm Michelle Gander. And we're gonna bring you weekly interviews with leaders about their careers.
Michelle Gander:And a monthly chat about what we've learned from those amazing people that we're going to hear from.
Luella Forbes:To help you have a better work life. We'll start by introducing ourselves. I'm Lorella Forbes. My background is in organization transformation and change, and I've spent a lot of my time working to help organizations improve. So improving systems and processes, improving effectiveness, more recently, changing organizational structures.
Luella Forbes:I have a doctorate in organizational storytelling and change, and I have recently started running my own business. So this is really my passion project to try and help people with their careers. We could talk a bit more about what that means later. Michelle, do you wanna introduce yourself?
Michelle Gander:Sure. And that's really interesting, starting your own business. My career is very different to that. So I've worked in universities for over twenty years. I did start out in corporate and I hated every minute of it.
Michelle Gander:So I moved, I was lucky enough to get a job at university and I found my tribe, which is really important and we'll probably get on to talking about that as the months go past. But I started off working in a faculty in a university as a kind of project manager, went through the ranks, kind of like hierarchical promotion, quit my job in The UK and got my PhD. So I've actually got PhD in career management. So hopefully that's going to be helpful in in this endeavor. And went back into corporate services, but I am now an academic and I work in a business school at Madame University.
Luella Forbes:Fantastic. It's interesting that you didn't really enjoy corporate life because I actually loved corporate life. I started off working my first ever job was for a recruitment company. I was there for kind of five years. And then and I felt like I'd found my home, and then I ended up going and working financial services before I moved because we've obviously both moved from The UK to Australia, if you can't tell from the accent.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. I moved to Australia in 2008 to Sydney, and I worked in consulting in Sydney and then moved to Perth in 2015. And I've had I mean, I've mostly worked in consulting, but I've also worked in corporate roles. I ended up getting a nice quiet government job in health during the pandemic. Turned out not to be quite as quiet as I had planned.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. And I've also been kind of program director on a large merger with the last job I had, and then I got made redundant, and I decided to set up and do my do my own thing, which is how we end up here, really. Indeed. It is. Have you done anything like this before?
Luella Forbes:Have you done a podcast before?
Michelle Gander:I have not done anything like well, that's a lie. I've not done a podcast. So I did try to launch a YouTube channel doing like little career management videos, but the job I had at the time, I just found it impossible to keep that up, to find the time to I like learning To be to To consistent, to learn be to edit, to do all those things. And then also to be true, market it, right? That's not my natural way of operating.
Michelle Gander:So, I kind of put my feet into that kind of social media pool, but this is the first
Luella Forbes:real endeavor that I'm looking forward to. I think the the closest that I've come is when I was about 14, I used to record the top 40 charts on a Sunday As
Michelle Gander:we all did.
Luella Forbes:In my on on a cassette. Ask your parents, kids. On a little cassette, and then I would record the in between bits, like so I would pretend to be the DJ going, and now take that singing, whatever, take that with singing.
Michelle Gander:So that you're the only person I've ever met that didn't try to cut that out when they were recording?
Luella Forbes:Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. I recorded that bit for myself. So, yes, I both of us are new to this, but both quite keen and passionate, I guess, about the the topic and the opportunity.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. And I guess we'll treat it as a learning experience.
Michelle Gander:Absolutely. Just being able to download these amazing people's brains and learn from them for us and for our listeners is gonna be really cool.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. Exactly. So the idea is maybe I'll talk about kind of where the idea came from. As I mentioned, I got made redundant almost exactly two years ago from when we're recording this. And I was already doing my doctorate at the time, and I had a bit of a think about what do I really care about?
Luella Forbes:What what's the thing that I most love doing, and what kind of lights me up, makes me wanna go to work every day? And I realized that actually, I really the bits of my career that I have valued the most have been the bits where I've been able to help people who have been in my team to navigate some of their some of the challenges in their career. And I get in my in my job doing transformation, I get to help organizations make better workplaces, but I think that one of the ways that you can help people's working lives be better is to help them have better agency and kind of ownership Mhmm. And be able to take action in their careers. And so when I was thinking about what did I care about, I was thinking about how do you make people's working lives better?
Luella Forbes:And then I kind of went to well, I'm already doing that at an organizational level with the transformation programs. But what would happen if we could help people navigate their careers and have more ownership over their careers that make their working lives better? And then also thinking about people who are people managers and helping them to be better people managers. And so I've actually created two things. This is the podcast, but I've also created the career library, which is a membership that people can join that's got a whole load of information on it to help them better navigate their working life.
Luella Forbes:It's called the career library. It could have been called the working life library, but that sounds a bit less snappy. So it's called the career library. And then this podcast, career stories, is kind of the complementary bit to it. So we'll have some bonus episodes that will go into the career library membership.
Luella Forbes:We'll do some regular emails and things Yep. And share information resources from the things that we learn.
Michelle Gander:Yep. And I think that's it's a really good point around kinda how It's also asked for me, like obviously I research and teach. And it's how can you help a wider set of people, right? So I can help individuals, and I have all through my career as well, like the mentoring people, I'm a mentor at the moment. And when you said about doing this podcast, like it is about how do you take that to another level to help more people?
Michelle Gander:Because there's only so much you can do on an individual to individual basis.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. And I think also the thing that I like about podcast is a bit of the opportunity to have a proper chat. There's I find some of the you know, doing LinkedIn posts or Instagram posts or whatever, they're quite you know, you have to be short and brief, and you're kind of summarizing really complex issues into into something that's really quite short. And for me, I think there's an opportunity for us to have proper discussions about Yeah. For sure.
Luella Forbes:Some of these things. So I'm sure that we're gonna end up talking about kind of a range of a range of things. But to just give you an overview of what people can expect, I'm gonna interview leaders every week, and I'm gonna be asking them about their career. So I'm gonna be asking them about what's the job that they do now, and I think it's really interesting. I've already found it really interesting.
Luella Forbes:I keep calling Michelle and and going, I just spoke to this person. It was really interesting. But really interesting to find out what people actually do and how the world works, really, like how everything fits together.
Michelle Gander:There's just so many amazing jobs out there, right, that don't know anything about.
Luella Forbes:And the the things that you don't even think about as well, like, you know so we've got somebody, for example, who is responsible for traffic. And and I don't think I'd really thought about it before, but somebody is responsible for managing traffic. So I've got a whole bunch of senior leaders who I have been interviewing, and these episodes are gonna come out every week. We've got really diverse range of people across a range of different industries and locations. Important to say that we're based in Perth, but we this isn't gonna be a Perth Yeah.
Luella Forbes:Podcast. We're interviewing I've been interviewing people. I've got interviews lined up in The UK. Back home? Back home.
Luella Forbes:I'm hoping to interview some people in Europe later in the year. We've got a really interesting range of people who have either pivoted careers or had the same career and the same job. Got people who've moved countries like we have, got people who've moved industries, got really interesting mix, I think, I hope, of people and organizations to hear about. And then I was thinking about how do I how do we make the most value for listeners? And I thought it would be really great to have someone I could talk to regularly about actually what are the themes and topics that we've learned.
Luella Forbes:Michelle, do you wanna talk about what you think some of the types of things that we might end up talking about in those monthly episodes that we do?
Michelle Gander:Yeah. I think it'll be really interesting because that you as you say, you've got such a diverse set of people to draw on. But the and the but I think the common denominator is gonna they've had organizational careers. And so that sets the boundaries really of what we're talking about. So, they're all going to be so different, but are going to be themes and I think, you know, I don't know, but I've not heard any yet.
Michelle Gander:I'm not doing any interviewing because my job doesn't really allow me to do that. But I think, you know, there's going to be some themes that come through and probably, you know, a lot of those wonder if we'll end up speaking a lot of time around those soft skills that people have, especially when you get to senior leadership. I think people The most successful leaders are those that almost leave their discipline knowledge behind and let their discipline staff do that. And I'm using discipline in a very broad sense, you know, whether it's HR or finance Yeah, or technical expertise. You've got the people that are in charge of that.
Michelle Gander:And so what do you bring as a leader? And I think that's always fascinating. And people have different ways of interpreting that. But I think if you're you know, if you've had a long and successful career, your emotional intelligence is probably gonna be something that we talk about. Making the most of opportunities when they come along, like this, for example.
Michelle Gander:I just thinking about that in terms of actually, it's a really good example of somebody coming to you with an opportunity and you're going, that's quite scary, but yes, I'll do that. And I thought, you know, I think that's what people do that have successful careers as well. They take risks in whatever, form that makes sense for them. Right? So I think that's definitely going to be themes that come out that are going to be able to cut across whatever industry you work for or whether you're public sector or charities or corporate, kind of the issues are gonna be the same, I think.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. And I think there's also a bit of and I have the advantage of knowing what people have said. I think there's also a bit in there about, I guess, the the way that people's careers have changed and evolved in ways that they've either planned or not planned, if you know what I mean, and the the decision making, I guess.
Michelle Gander:Absolutely.
Luella Forbes:And how people have made decisions about what happens. And I think all of this is intended really to help people who are kind of trying to think about their current next career move to think about kind of what's important to them and how they might Yep. How they might make changes that they wanna change.
Michelle Gander:And I think I I wonder whether what whether what will will come out is something around people's values as well. Because a lot, you know, I think your value alignment to your organization is really important and probably quite an underestimated factor within whether you're gonna enjoy your job or not. And I can speak from example because I've had a job that I absolutely hated. So I think that's a really important concept. And I wonder whether that'll come out strongly.
Luella Forbes:We so we're gonna do interviews every week. We're going to then have a monthly episode. So at the end of every month, Michelle and I will have a podcast where we just talk about what the interviews that you've heard during the course of that month have been and any themes and topics. And if there are kind of resources or if there's information that we can provide, any members will get access to those in a monthly email that we'll send out.
Michelle Gander:Absolutely. And I think the the strength is, I mean, both have academic side of our jobs. And I think what can add to that, to the debate around career management, because there's a lot of bad information out there. There's a lot of
Luella Forbes:bad information
Michelle Gander:out there. Well, there's a
Luella Forbes:lot of information out there
Michelle Gander:as There's a lot of information, some of it very good, some of it not so good, some of it most of it middling. But I think what we've got is that background in understanding that there is a basis of evidence for a lot of this stuff. And we can bring that to the discussion because I think that's actually important to cut through a lot of the noise to go When talking about what we've learned from particular interviews, being able to go, Oh, well these are the things. Actually that kinda correlates with what some of the literature says.
Luella Forbes:And actually, that's a really good point because the kind of critical thinking, I think, is a really important topic in the world at the moment. So the ability to look at something Yeah. And assess what's true or not. And I'm sure that's gonna come a lot up a lot in relation to AI, which I'm sure we'll end up talking about as well.
Michelle Gander:Oh, I see another AI LinkedIn post. I'm gonna Yeah.
Luella Forbes:If not multiple points, but but the ability to figure out what information you're getting is actually true and evidence based Exactly. Versus kind of what people are just speculating about. So that's the format. So weekly interviews with senior leaders, and then monthly, Michelle and I will have a chat and reflect on what we've heard and and try and give people advice.
Michelle Gander:I think yeah. I think for me, it's about taking those key key themes that come out and transforming them, I suppose, into those takeaways that people can implement in their own. If you're really trying to actively manage your career, and I think, you know, probably most people are, you know, over the long term, like what what does this mean? What can I do? Am I looking for a promotion at some point?
Michelle Gander:Am I actually questioning whether this is the right organization for me? You know, all of that type of stuff.
Luella Forbes:Or if you're not having a good time and you're trying to figure out what your next move And then the other thing that's really important to me is I talked about kind of making a difference for people to own their own careers, but also helping people managers. So I think we'll also try and give some tips to people managers for if their team are struggling as well. Because I think if people managers and I'm deliberately using the word managers and not leaders because I think mean, leaders as well, but I think anyone who manages people, trying to help them help their people manage their careers as well. Think
Michelle Gander:Absolutely. And I think
Luella Forbes:is really important.
Michelle Gander:There's I think everybody underestimates the impact of your direct supervisor on your career. It they can be a really positive force or actually they can be a real block for many reasons. So helping people kind of understand that I think it's important from both kind of sides.
Luella Forbes:Yeah, and I think, you know, we spend so much time at work. Yes. Most of us spend, you know, our whole week at work. And if you're having a bit of a rubbish time at work, it takes over your whole life. Absolutely.
Luella Forbes:And so I think from my perspective, my real aim is how do you help that happen less.
Michelle Gander:Yes.
Luella Forbes:And how do you help people's working lives be better?
Michelle Gander:Yeah, absolutely. Because you're not talking about that everyone has like a crappy week, right? Yeah. Or maybe months or whatever. Okay.
Michelle Gander:Just, you know, it's the peaks and troughs of of organizational life, but it's that, you know, fundamental, I really I'm really questioning.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. And I'm
Michelle Gander:anxious or upset And I'm taking it home with me.
Luella Forbes:I'm taking it home. Yeah. All of that. So I think, I mean, that's a fairly broad broad ask that we've set ourselves. But I think that's the because
Michelle Gander:we like to talk.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. So podcast will be good for that, I think. But that's the broad aim is to try and help with those those types of issues. So the inter in the interview itself, I'll actually ask people about their job. I'll ask them about their career path.
Luella Forbes:Michelle and I have talked a little bit about that. We'll probably end up sharing a lot, I think, in our monthly sessions about our career paths. But I also do some quick fire questions with them. And so I thought as a bit of a starter, we could do we could do those today so that you've got something to compare it to when when you get to the interviews.
Michelle Gander:But I'm I'm an academic, so I'm not sure quick fire is my forte. Okay.
Luella Forbes:So what is your coffee order?
Michelle Gander:So I'm a soy cappuccino girl because I love the chocolate. Excellent.
Luella Forbes:I I love a latte just with the full fat full fat milk. I'll be honest, when I first moved to Australia, I did not like coffee at all, but I don't think that you can live in Australia. It took me a while. I think Perth was what broke me. Like, I moved to Perth, and I suddenly turned into a coffee drinker.
Michelle Gander:Coffee is good. But I
Luella Forbes:have reduced my sugar. Oh, yes. It's good. Sugar in my latte, now I just have a latte. So that was the coffee or that.
Luella Forbes:So do you prefer to work from home or in the office?
Michelle Gander:Hard question. So I'm probably if I had my ideal, I'd do half and half because I love being at home and I can get a lot done especially when I'm writing.
Luella Forbes:Yeah.
Michelle Gander:But I miss I'm I'm working at home all the time in a minute and I really miss people. So what about you?
Luella Forbes:I think I'm an outlier in this because if I could work at home full time, I absolutely would. I love it. I recharge my battery so much better. I'm quite a big introvert, and I struggle a little bit with some of the social convention and the, you know, all of those conversations you have to have with people in the kitchen about what they did on the weekend. And when I'm there, I like those conversations, but I find being in the office so draining that it actually affects the rest of my life.
Michelle Gander:Oh, wow.
Luella Forbes:And that I end up not doing stuff with my friends. And when I work from home, my social battery is so much easier for me to build those social connections that are really important for your mental health and for your well-being and Yeah. You know, your life generally. And so, actually, I love love love I would not guess that
Michelle Gander:about you, Luella. I would have thought you'd be the other way around. Interesting.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. Well, and actually my last job, I was program director for a big merger a 100% from home. Wow. And I loved it. And I before that, if you'd asked me whether you could do that and that would be physically possible, I would have said it would have been impossible, but I loved it.
Luella Forbes:And yeah. So I love working from home, but I would caveat that with, of course, I love seeing people in the office. I just think I'm more productive and happier when I'm at home more, but there's plenty of times where realistically, you need to be in the office
Michelle Gander:Yeah.
Luella Forbes:To build connections, to to have meetings, to have hard conversations. I think that was probably the thing that I found Yeah. Most difficult working from home. Yeah. I think Hard conversations.
Michelle Gander:I've I've really missed the camaraderie of being in a team. And I know you're still in a team and you can work at home, but for me, it's different. Like I am probably way more productive at home, but I just miss that being around people. I miss the little rituals of the office, although I usually complain about the amount of cakes that get bought in for birthdays, actually that whole ritual of you know, bonding over cake is not something to be sniffed. I didn't think I'd miss it, but I do.
Luella Forbes:I think the caveat that I would have though is that particular job where I was working from home, everybody was based in different offices all over Australia. So even if I was in Melbourne or if if I was in the Perth office, I would just be on a Teams call to people in Sydney or Adelaide or Wollongong or Brisbane or whatever. So even so in that situation No. Is no. That's the situation, then
Michelle Gander:For sure. That's at home.
Luella Forbes:I think if everybody else is in the office and you're at home, that doesn't work. And I feel like you miss out
Michelle Gander:Yeah.
Luella Forbes:On too much stuff. Because there also ends up being all these side conversations that happens where somebody's just bumped into each other in that annoying kitchen conversation that I just talked about. Yeah. And they've ended up talking they've ended up resolving an issue or kind of progressing something, and you you kinda miss out on it a lot. But dream scenario, would be at home the whole time with my dog.
Luella Forbes:We're not doing very
Michelle Gander:well with the quick follow-up.
Luella Forbes:Do you prefer Are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Michelle Gander:So I'm actually an introvert that has learned to be an extrovert, if you know what I mean. I do. So I Example, I went to a get together on Sunday. Lots of people I had to basically lay down in a dark room when I got home, because my social batteries were just done. And so, I'm very introverted in that way, but I'm also very extrovert in other and in the workplace I've definitely learned to be.
Michelle Gander:So yeah, I think lots of introverts are like that though. We have to adapt to the world around us that like extroverts.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. I think, you know, of the ways that I I also am an introvert as I said earlier, but one of the ways that I found to do that is for example, working on a whiteboard because then I am doing my introvert thinking kind of real time in front of people and then they get to share what I'm doing. Okay. Yeah. I think sometimes people confuse introverts with shyness.
Michelle Gander:For sure.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. And I think quite a lot of people can get confused for me because I'm confident and quite happy to have a chat and, you know, not worried about going and meeting new people and things like that. They then think that that must mean that I'm an extrovert. But actually, what that means is that I really love doing it for a very short period of time, and then I would like to hibernate. Yes, exactly.
Luella Forbes:Exactly. So which is what I'll do after this. So do you prefer to use Word, Excel or PowerPoint?
Michelle Gander:Oh, I'm Word all all along. I am I write like my job is writing. I love it. And so it's Word all the time. Excel, I'm I can read a budget sheet, but, you know, I can't even do pivot tables.
Michelle Gander:PowerPoint's alright, but, you know, who wants to read off a PowerPoint?
Luella Forbes:I think in PowerPoint, I can't do anything in Word. My thesis was a nightmare because Yeah. That's true. I had to actually get my lovely friend, Anna. Thank you, Anna, if you're listening.
Luella Forbes:I had to get my lovely friend, Anna, to format all of my headings and contents pages and everything because I just That's hilarious. I cannot do it. But give me a PowerPoint. I can I can tell a very compelling story in PowerPoint? And that's because I spent kind of ten years working in consulting, basically.
Luella Forbes:What is your comms style? Do you prefer an email, a Teams message or a phone call?
Michelle Gander:Oh, not a phone call. I'm like a millennial. I don't like to answer for phones, so I don't know who's calling. Email or Teams is alright. I don't mind.
Michelle Gander:I'm not very good at looking at notifications though. So probably you get me best at email. I probably prefer
Luella Forbes:Teams or even a Teams call as I hassle Michelle on Teams all the time.
Michelle Gander:And I don't respond very quickly because I know it look at my notifications.
Luella Forbes:Is there a book, a podcast, or a piece of advice that shaped your thinking in your career?
Michelle Gander:I did have I did know these questions were coming. So I did actually have to think about this because it's really hard when you've had a long career to think about this, but actually, I had somebody. I used to hate giving presentations. I would go bright red, I would like forget what I was saying, I hated it with a passion. But kind of as the more sooner you get in an organization, the more you have to do these things.
Michelle Gander:I once had a friend at university, Sarah Earl, hello if you're listening. She once told and it was so silly, I was telling her about this, my fear of presentations, and she just looked at me in this really confused way and went, Don't be so silly. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I am being a bit silly. But it was such this simple thing that got me to reflect on my own like because it's your own internal dialogue, right? That make that you blow something up into this big thing and it's not.
Michelle Gander:You're never asked to give a presentation on stuff you don't know about. Mainly, you're not asked to give a presentation on stuff you don't it happens occasionally. I could wing anything now almost. But it was it was actually just this one kind of prompt that got me to re rethink my own brain, I think.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. Right. Great. What about you? Best piece of advice that I have had, I think, was about it was actually when I was in my first proper job.
Luella Forbes:And, hopefully, I'm going to interview that leader
Michelle Gander:Oh, yes.
Luella Forbes:As part of the as part of this process. But I was in my first proper job, and my I can't remember if my boss ever actually said this to me, but the the way she acted was that she wanted to empower me to be successful and wasn't threatened. I mean, not that she would have been threatened, to be honest, but she wasn't afraid of my success, if you know what I mean, and talked about always trying to encourage, you know, trying to encourage the people who are under you to overtake you type Yeah. Thing. And I can't remember if she actually said it, or it was just a feeling that I had, or somebody said it.
Luella Forbes:But I've always remembered that, and then as soon as I was a people leader, every time I had somebody who I could see was a bit of a superstar, I was kind of like, actually, how do I set them how do I help them be kind of ready and not afraid for them to be better than you?
Michelle Gander:Yeah. Absolutely.
Luella Forbes:It was the gist of it. And I'm not saying I'm not claiming by any means that I was better than my boss, but the fact that she wasn't afraid of Yeah. Encouraging me and letting me shine was really valuable to me and became really valuable to me as a leader. And, actually, that actually takes me on to my next question, which is what are you proudest of in your career? And for me, if if you don't mind me going first.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. For me, what I'm proudest of is some of those junior people who I was able to kind of fan the flame and help them grow. And without a doubt, some of them are way better than me, and I'm so proud of them and what they've achieved and how amazing they are. And I just love seeing those people grow.
Michelle Gander:Yeah. It's really interesting because I didn't know you were going to say that, and so that was actually going to be mine.
Luella Forbes:Oh, really?
Michelle Gander:Yeah. It's really interesting. So I love to surround myself. I'm not one of these people that pretends to know everything or, you we've all had bosses that are a bit like that, but I love to surround myself with like the smartest people. It's the joy of actually working in a university is you are surrounded by some of the smartest people you're probably gonna meet.
Michelle Gander:Some not so, but you know, a lot of them are. And I remember when I worked at the Open University in The UK, I headed up the office of the chief operating officer, it was like 35 staff, that kind of thing. And I remember I had two amazing staff members, Alexis and Agmara, still remember them. And in some respects, they are really hard to manage because they were so good. It was finding enough challenging work assignments to give people, because I could just like get through the work.
Michelle Gander:But seeing them flourish was just so amazing and I've had fantastic careers in universities back in The UK. I don't know if they remember me, but I remember them. And I just think it's so important. I do think I wrote a LinkedIn post a number of years ago now and I think I titled it fly my prettiest fly.
Luella Forbes:I love it.
Michelle Gander:Yeah. So yeah, that was my
Luella Forbes:But that actually brings us really nicely back to and that's why we're both here, really, isn't
Michelle Gander:it? Absolutely.
Luella Forbes:Because that's that's what we that's what we wanna do Yeah. As part of this. So just as a recap, so Wednesdays, there'll be an interview with the leader. At the end of the month, Michelle and I get together. We'd really love for you to be part of our community.
Luella Forbes:So you can join the podcast membership at the career library. The details are in the show notes. And for that, you'll get a bonus you'll get access to bonus episodes. I think there's probably gonna be one or two a month in terms of bonus episodes, and then you'll get a monthly email from us with any of the resources or guides or tools or tips or whatever that we've talked about in the in the monthly episode where we talk. And then we'd love to hear people's questions
Michelle Gander:That as would be really, really good actually to get people's questions or observations, thoughts about what they've heard in interviews, or any career related question we'd be happy to tackle, I think.
Luella Forbes:And so we'll also have a section on those question your questions in our monthly episode. You can email them through to our email address, which is in the show notes, but it's [email protected]. And you can find more information about their career library and membership and everything through the links in the show notes on LinkedIn or on Instagram. Yep.
Michelle Gander:Yep. And we want people to subscribe. Oh, yes. Leave a review once you've heard Yes. A couple of episodes, I'm guessing.
Luella Forbes:Yes. We'd love you to subscribe. So in whatever your podcast app is Yes. If you can like and subscribe And share
Michelle Gander:the pot. That would be good.
Luella Forbes:Yeah. Fantastic. Is that it? I think that's it. And so you'll be back?
Luella Forbes:I'll be
Michelle Gander:back in a month.
Luella Forbes:At the
Michelle Gander:end of the month. At the end of the month, talking about people that I haven't listened to in two years And
Luella Forbes:I did think whether I would tease what they are now. I think I'm gonna leave it to be a surprise.
Michelle Gander:Yeah. But there's good people, there's good people. I know who they are. I just haven't listened to those. Yeah,
Luella Forbes:it's gonna be great. And I will be back next Wednesday with the first of those interviews. Excellent. Good job.
Michelle Gander:Alright. Fantastic. See you then. See you then.
Creators and Guests
